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Phyllis Griffin interview transcript, December 21, 2004

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home. Women have a right to education. Women have a right to climb in corporate organizations, institutions. 

NL: Yeah, it's sort of, as an aside, troubling, I suppose, how "feminist" and "liberal" have become words that are,that other forces have tried to, almost make derogatory in this day and age. 

PG: Almost make what?

NL: Derogatory

PG: Well it's always been derogatory. It's always been fearful to be labeled, um, a radical or a revolutionary or a Communist. It's always been a fearful thing. I mean as long as I've been aware of those words. It's as been as being called, you know, the n-word. Matter of fact, I think I finally learned how to laugh about it. when somebody said I don't remember who, who said it, but you know, any African America...maybe my mother said it, any African America who shows an iota of intelligence and acts upon that intelligence is automatically labeled a Communist to keep them in their place. It's a tactic and nothing more than that. 

NL: Yeah I can think of plenty anecdotal evidence to back that up, in terms of, you know, James Baldwin, Langston Hughes, Richard Wright. 

PG: Right! 

NL: Ralph Ellison, they were all subject to that. Can you remember your mother's reaction to the rise of Black Nationalism? In an interview, she stated, um I think this was in 1986 when Verda Williams was making the film, um, "Blacks in Des Moines," about blacks in Des Moines. She said "I, of course, was not part of that, because I was considered a 'fuddy-duddy' by that time" But do you think that she sympathized with the youth that joined that movement?

PG: Absolutely. And um, for a while she was teaching at, uh, Tech High School. And, um, and I remember there was a major snowstorm that on the night that my mother had, I guess invited this young man to come to dinner, I mean it was a major snowstorm so there was no telephone call as to whether he was to come or not. And about an hour after his expected arrival there came the doorbell, right? There came the doorbell, there he was standing in like head to foot covered in snow. We were all shocked to see him. But he said, he had, he walked from wherever he lived, which is like blocks and blocks and blocks and blocks. And uh, while we were sitting to dinner explained how upset he was, I guess, about what was happening to him at school, maybe even in terms of the home front. I think he felt as though there was no hope. And, uh, this young man showed up to my mother's funeral and spoke, um, there might be a tape of that too, and Mary Campos might have it, or my brother or sister might have it. And this same young man talked about that visit, and how it changed his life and it gave him hope. So my mother worked behind the scenes in terms of staying connected to the youth. But they didn't want her on

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9 home. Women have a right to education. Women have a right to climb in corporate organizations, institutions. NL: Yeah, it's sort of, as an aside, troubling, I suppose, how "feminist" and "liberal" have become words that are,that other forces have tried to, almost make derogatory in this day and age. PG: Almost make what? NL: Derogatory PG: Well it's always been derogatory. It's always been fearful to be labeled, um, a radical or a revolutionary or a Communist. It's always been a fearful thing. I mean as long as I've been aware of those words. It's as been as being called, you know, the n-word. Matter of fact, I think I finally learned how to laugh about it. when somebody said I don't remember who, who said it, but you know, any African America...maybe my mother said it, any African America who shows an iota of intelligence and acts upon that intelligence is automatically labeled a Communist to keep them in their place. It's a tactic and nothing more than that. NL: Yeah I can think of plenty anecdotal evidence to back that up, in terms of, you know, James Baldwin, Langston Hughes, Richard Wright. PG: Right! NL: Ralph Ellison, they were all subject to that. Can you remember your mother's reaction to the rise of Black Nationalism? In an interview, she stated, um I think this was in 1986 when Verda Williams was making the film, um, "Blacks in Des Moines," about blacks in Des Moines. She said "I, of course, was not part of that, because I was considered a 'fuddy-duddy' by that time" But do you think that she sympathized with the youth that joined that movement? PG: Absolutely. And um, for a while she was teaching at, uh, Tech High School. And, um, and I remember there was a major snowstorm that on the night that my mother had, I guess invited this young man to come to dinner, I mean it was a major snowstorm so there was no telephone call as to whether he was to come or not. And about an hour after his expected arrival there came the doorbell, right? There came the doorbell, there he was standing in like head to foot covered in snow. We were all shocked to see him. But he said, he had, he walked from wherever he lived, which is like blocks and blocks and blocks and blocks. And uh, while we were sitting to dinner explained how upset he was, I guess, about what was happening to him at school, maybe even in terms of the home front. I think he felt as though there was no hope. And, uh, this young man showed up to my mother's funeral and spoke, um, there might be a tape of that too, and Mary Campos might have it, or my brother or sister might have it. And this same young man talked about that visit, and how it changed his life and it gave him hope. So my mother worked behind the scenes in terms of staying connected to the youth. But they didn't want her on