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Campus "Unrest" demonstrations and consequences, 1970-1971

1971-11-12 American Report: Review of Religion and American Power Page 16

12-S AMERICAN REPORT, NOVEMBER 12, 1971

This interview was conducted in Cleveland Ohio, on October 9. The participants are Mrs. Louis Schroeder, mother of William Schroeder; Mr and Mrs Martin Scheuer, parents of Sandra Schueyer; Mr Arthur Kraise, father of Allison Krause, and Mr. Steven Sindell, attorney for Mr. Krause. 

Mrs. Louis Schroeder

Arthur Krause

Photographs: Lawrence Frank 

18 Months Later: Families of Kent Dead Speak Out

by Ron Henderson

After more than a year of silence by the Justice Department, Attorney General John Mitchell announced that although the actions by Ohio National Guardsmen were, in the words of the Scranton Commission "unnecessary, unwarranted and inexcusable" nevertheless, he would not seek further court action. He added "Our review persuades me that there is no credible evidence of a conspiracy between National Guardsmen to shoot students on the campus and there is no likelihood of successful prosecution of individual guardsmen. "

Were you surprised by the Attorney General's ruling especially in light of considerable evidence as interpreted by many, to the contrary?

Mrs Schroeder: We were prepared for it mostly because it took so long for them to get around to making an announcement of any king. If they were going to act on our behalf they would have done it sooner. And the fact that they had to look for an appropriate time to make their announcement and to look for excuses was a good indication that they were not going to act for us. 
Mr Krause: I hold similar views to Mrs. Schroeder. On May 5, 1970, the day after the shooting, however, I asked Congress to do someting because I had a fear within myself that there would not be anything done by the Department of Justice. I changed my opinion somewhat two months later when the first Department of Justice summary of the F.B.I report came out. The report basically supported many of the things which several newspapers had reported before, but the report pointed out at least six guardsmen could be indicted for their acts on that day. Then I had some correspondence with the Department of Justice and I was told if anything went wrong on the Portage County Grand Jury investigation that they would move in with the power of the United States Department of Justice. There was information in that letter I received at the end of September. Still nothing. 
Then again, when the New York Times and other newspapers published articles in October and November, which was even further identification of many things in the F.B.I report, I thought that was a positive motion. But on March 21 of this year, when the Washington Post published a leak from the Department of Justice which intimated they would do nothing. I was positive then that there was no use in looking to the Department of Justice. We went at it legally, and my attorney, Mr. Sindell has worked valiantly on this matter; and we pushed and shoved and cajoled in the correct American tradition to get this thing moving. 

What do you think motivated the Attorney General's decision?

Mr. Krause: I think the Attorney General is afraid to let the American people know the truth in an open forum - a courtroom. A Federal Grand Jury is part of the American system. I think he thinks the American system is for him to manipulate rather than the people. I try to figure Mr. Mitchell out but I am afraid I can't quite figure him out. 

Mr. Scheuer, Mrs Scheuer, what was your reaction to the decision of the Attorney General which was announced on August 13, 1971? Were you surprised by the decision?

Mr. Scheuer: No I wasn't surprised at all. I expected it after the report in the Washington Post. I do not have any more hope in the Justice Department. 

Do you feel the Attorney General's actions were politically motivated?

Mr. Scheuer: I would say that as a Republican he wanted to protect Republican interests. He is a political person and that is essentially what the Justice Department reflects. 

What does this say to you about Justice in America? Does is alter the way you have perceived or understood the way justice was administered in this country prior to May 4, 1970 and now? 

Mrs. Schroeder: Well I'm a little ashamed of myself for the news that we released for publication on August 13 after the announcement. We made the statement that we had lost faith in the American system. That isn't exactly true and after I heard Mr. Krause's voice on the radio saying instead we are going to make the system work I felt that was a much better reaction. But the shock of the moment the lack of faith was what we felt. 
Before May 4, I think we were - maybe its apathy, maybe its just feeling of security. Our house had never burned down. We had never had a severe automobile accident. No major tragedy had ever hit our family. When it did though, well things turn out for other people so things will turn our all right for us. When we heard that Mr. Krause was doubting - he was using the word "whitewash" - we didn't quite believe it and it took us a little bit longer to get into, not a battle, but it is a search. The church is now using the term "appeal for justice" and that's where we're going to stay until it comes. 
Mr Krause: I have watched the political scene in America for quite a few years . Prior to May 4, when there were three black children killed in a bombing in Birmingham or when the students were killed at Orangeburg. I would click my tongue and say "isn't that a shame" and go back to work. I feel a great sense of guilt bexause I realized what was going on but I didn't do a damn thing about it. 
And you say what are you tripping on this battle for, but I'm telling you, this apathy and I had it too but I knew, and I think the whole American people knew it was there and we just sit on the sidelines. We depend on the lawyer, we depend on the church, we depend on the Government, but if the Government doesn't have the right people on the job nothing will be done and we must have good government and we the people have to make the government good. Apathy will not be part of my makeup anymore. Apathy is what caused Kent State. 

Mr. Scheuer, how did you conceive of justice in the United States before May 4? How does it contrast with how you now feel about it?

Mr. Scheuer: I always had great confidence. I was born in Europe and I always looked up to America as a place where there was more justice than any other country in the world. And with few exceptions I always expected equal justice for everybody in America. Lately I think we have too much corruption in the upper levels of the Government and justice can be bought, and high officials can be bought out. And now we have a lot of injustice - not  only in our case but in other cases too. We have an accumulation of injustice and its unfortunate that we are now part of this too. 

Mrs. Scheuer, you have also lost confidence in the system of justice in the United States. What would it take to restore it?

Mrs. Scheuer: I really don't know what we can do. We can just hope for justice. In this case, like before I never paid any attention to what went on in the Government. I thought that justice always prevailed but I have changed my mind, especially since the Pentagon Papers and certain things in the Calley case were revealed. I think if we had a Federal Grand Jury and were able to bring some thing to light. it would restore my confidence in the system. 

Mr. Krause:You know, we're all white around this table and we talk about the black man, but the black man has experienced the greatest injustices for so many years. What has happened in this particular situation is that the student is now the nigger - and I'm going to use that term for its shock value. The student is the nigger in this situation. The students, my daughter and Barry, told me about a lot of things I knew they were right, but I didn't want to admit it. I think they're aware; they're young. God bless every one of them for they are young. 

This leads into my next question. Much has been written in the popular media, more often than not gibly about the "generation gap" Does the Kent State tragedy and subsequent events illuminate. 

[Cont p. 13-s Col. 1]

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12-S AMERICAN REPORT, NOVEMBER 12, 1971 This interview was conducted in Cleveland Ohio, on October 9. The participants are Mrs. Louis Schroeder, mother of William Schroeder; Mr and Mrs Martin Scheuer, parents of Sandra Schueyer; Mr Arthur Kraise, father of Allison Krause, and Mr. Steven Sindell, attorney for Mr. Krause. Mrs. Louis Schroeder Arthur Krause Photographs: Lawrence Frank 18 Months Later: Families of Kent Dead Speak Out by Ron Henderson After more than a year of silence by the Justice Department, Attorney General John Mitchell announced that although the actions by Ohio National Guardsmen were, in the words of the Scranton Commission "unnecessary, unwarranted and inexcusable" nevertheless, he would not seek further court action. He added "Our review persuades me that there is no credible evidence of a conspiracy between National Guardsmen to shoot students on the campus and there is no likelihood of successful prosecution of individual guardsmen. " Were you surprised by the Attorney General's ruling especially in light of considerable evidence as interpreted by many, to the contrary? Mrs Schroeder: We were prepared for it mostly because it took so long for them to get around to making an announcement of any king. If they were going to act on our behalf they would have done it sooner. And the fact that they had to look for an appropriate time to make their announcement and to look for excuses was a good indication that they were not going to act for us. Mr Krause: I hold similar views to Mrs. Schroeder. On May 5, 1970, the day after the shooting, however, I asked Congress to do someting because I had a fear within myself that there would not be anything done by the Department of Justice. I changed my opinion somewhat two months later when the first Department of Justice summary of the F.B.I report came out. The report basically supported many of the things which several newspapers had reported before, but the report pointed out at least six guardsmen could be indicted for their acts on that day. Then I had some correspondence with the Department of Justice and I was told if anything went wrong on the Portage County Grand Jury investigation that they would move in with the power of the United States Department of Justice. There was information in that letter I received at the end of September. Still nothing. Then again, when the New York Times and other newspapers published articles in October and November, which was even further identification of many things in the F.B.I report, I thought that was a positive motion. But on March 21 of this year, when the Washington Post published a leak from the Department of Justice which intimated they would do nothing. I was positive then that there was no use in looking to the Department of Justice. We went at it legally, and my attorney, Mr. Sindell has worked valiantly on this matter; and we pushed and shoved and cajoled in the correct American tradition to get this thing moving. What do you think motivated the Attorney General's decision? Mr. Krause: I think the Attorney General is afraid to let the American people know the truth in an open forum - a courtroom. A Federal Grand Jury is part of the American system. I think he thinks the American system is for him to manipulate rather than the people. I try to figure Mr. Mitchell out but I am afraid I can't quite figure him out. Mr. Scheuer, Mrs Scheuer, what was your reaction to the decision of the Attorney General which was announced on August 13, 1971? Were you surprised by the decision? Mr. Scheuer: No I wasn't surprised at all. I expected it after the report in the Washington Post. I do not have any more hope in the Justice Department. Do you feel the Attorney General's actions were politically motivated? Mr. Scheuer: I would say that as a Republican he wanted to protect Republican interests. He is a political person and that is essentially what the Justice Department reflects. What does this say to you about Justice in America? Does is alter the way you have perceived or understood the way justice was administered in this country prior to May 4, 1970 and now? Mrs. Schroeder: Well I'm a little ashamed of myself for the news that we released for publication on August 13 after the announcement. We made the statement that we had lost faith in the American system. That isn't exactly true and after I heard Mr. Krause's voice on the radio saying instead we are going to make the system work I felt that was a much better reaction. But the shock of the moment the lack of faith was what we felt. Before May 4, I think we were - maybe its apathy, maybe its just feeling of security. Our house had never burned down. We had never had a severe automobile accident. No major tragedy had ever hit our family. When it did though, well things turn out for other people so things will turn our all right for us. When we heard that Mr. Krause was doubting - he was using the word "whitewash" - we didn't quite believe it and it took us a little bit longer to get into, not a battle, but it is a search. The church is now using the term "appeal for justice" and that's where we're going to stay until it comes. Mr Krause: I have watched the political scene in America for quite a few years . Prior to May 4, when there were three black children killed in a bombing in Birmingham or when the students were killed at Orangeburg. I would click my tongue and say "isn't that a shame" and go back to work. I feel a great sense of guilt bexause I realized what was going on but I didn't do a damn thing about it. And you say what are you tripping on this battle for, but I'm telling you, this apathy and I had it too but I knew, and I think the whole American people knew it was there and we just sit on the sidelines. We depend on the lawyer, we depend on the church, we depend on the Government, but if the Government doesn't have the right people on the job nothing will be done and we must have good government and we the people have to make the government good. Apathy will not be part of my makeup anymore. Apathy is what caused Kent State. Mr. Scheuer, how did you conceive of justice in the United States before May 4? How does it contrast with how you now feel about it? Mr. Scheuer: I always had great confidence. I was born in Europe and I always looked up to America as a place where there was more justice than any other country in the world. And with few exceptions I always expected equal justice for everybody in America. Lately I think we have too much corruption in the upper levels of the Government and justice can be bought, and high officials can be bought out. And now we have a lot of injustice - not only in our case but in other cases too. We have an accumulation of injustice and its unfortunate that we are now part of this too. Mrs. Scheuer, you have also lost confidence in the system of justice in the United States. What would it take to restore it? Mrs. Scheuer: I really don't know what we can do. We can just hope for justice. In this case, like before I never paid any attention to what went on in the Government. I thought that justice always prevailed but I have changed my mind, especially since the Pentagon Papers and certain things in the Calley case were revealed. I think if we had a Federal Grand Jury and were able to bring some thing to light. it would restore my confidence in the system. Mr. Krause:You know, we're all white around this table and we talk about the black man, but the black man has experienced the greatest injustices for so many years. What has happened in this particular situation is that the student is now the nigger - and I'm going to use that term for its shock value. The student is the nigger in this situation. The students, my daughter and Barry, told me about a lot of things I knew they were right, but I didn't want to admit it. I think they're aware; they're young. God bless every one of them for they are young. This leads into my next question. Much has been written in the popular media, more often than not gibly about the "generation gap" Does the Kent State tragedy and subsequent events illuminate. [Cont p. 13-s Col. 1]