DIY History | Transcribe | Campus Culture | Chicano conference programs and speeches, April 1973-May 1974 | 1974-04-14 Workshop IV, Chicano: Legal Process Page 10

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Chicano conference programs and speeches, April 1973-May 1974

1974-04-14 Workshop IV, Chicano: Legal Process Page 10

10
unequal treatment by law enforcement agencies.

ROBERT BARTELS: My comments are about the same as yours. It is awfully hard to prove. You can get individual cases where the police have made an arrest without probable cause. If you get the right judge at the preliminary hearing he will throw it out. It is not uncommon for the police to testify in ways which reduce the chances of you getting it thrown out. But, really, you have a lot of pressure on the judge: what is he going to do? He either has to state every policeman is a liar or he must believe them, or have some suspicion at that point that they are twisting the truth a little bit. You have a whole pattern of conduct. I think it is true in some areas that the police pick on Chicanos, young people or some other group. You have an awfully difficult time establishing that in many cases where you have got bad treatment against your group and you have to get many more cases where there has been good treatment on the other group. The second step is the hardest to document because you are not likely to find the people they are treating well. Even if you do they are not likely to testify. I really think in a lot of those cases it is a situation where the lawyer is not as nearly as powerful as the newspaper or the other media. 

If you can get into records or documents it is good. But when Pete was working in Muscatine, we were trying to get documentation on a particular case. It turned out that the Muscatine police never wrote out reports on anything. They just went and talked to the District Attorney, the County Attorney, and there was nothing on paper.

ROBERT BARTELS: (response to a question regarding Immigration Law Enforcement) I think the answer is in terms of being arrested by the police or an immigration officer that they can't just go around saying, "Hey that looks like a Chicano, let's check to see if he has his papers." That doesn't mean as a practical matter they can't arrest you once they get you down there. What normally happens in a criminal case, they think they are just going around looking for dope, then start picking up everyone and happen to find some dope on you. If the arrest is no good they must prosecute you for that particular offense. The problem with immigration is they do not necessarily have to prosecute you for a criminal offense: The other alternative is that they can deport you. That is where the person who gets picked up illegally on an immigration violation is faced with problems because I do not think they will be able to prevent the deportation. 

PETE RAEL: In other words if they ask you for your papers and you do have your papers apparently if they do stop you at random and start searching you they have violated some of your constitutional rights. It is my understanding that you would be able to go to court and sue them for violating your

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10 unequal treatment by law enforcement agencies. ROBERT BARTELS: My comments are about the same as yours. It is awfully hard to prove. You can get individual cases where the police have made an arrest without probable cause. If you get the right judge at the preliminary hearing he will throw it out. It is not uncommon for the police to testify in ways which reduce the chances of you getting it thrown out. But, really, you have a lot of pressure on the judge: what is he going to do? He either has to state every policeman is a liar or he must believe them, or have some suspicion at that point that they are twisting the truth a little bit. You have a whole pattern of conduct. I think it is true in some areas that the police pick on Chicanos, young people or some other group. You have an awfully difficult time establishing that in many cases where you have got bad treatment against your group and you have to get many more cases where there has been good treatment on the other group. The second step is the hardest to document because you are not likely to find the people they are treating well. Even if you do they are not likely to testify. I really think in a lot of those cases it is a situation where the lawyer is not as nearly as powerful as the newspaper or the other media. If you can get into records or documents it is good. But when Pete was working in Muscatine, we were trying to get documentation on a particular case. It turned out that the Muscatine police never wrote out reports on anything. They just went and talked to the District Attorney, the County Attorney, and there was nothing on paper. ROBERT BARTELS: (response to a question regarding Immigration Law Enforcement) I think the answer is in terms of being arrested by the police or an immigration officer that they can't just go around saying, "Hey that looks like a Chicano, let's check to see if he has his papers." That doesn't mean as a practical matter they can't arrest you once they get you down there. What normally happens in a criminal case, they think they are just going around looking for dope, then start picking up everyone and happen to find some dope on you. If the arrest is no good they must prosecute you for that particular offense. The problem with immigration is they do not necessarily have to prosecute you for a criminal offense: The other alternative is that they can deport you. That is where the person who gets picked up illegally on an immigration violation is faced with problems because I do not think they will be able to prevent the deportation. PETE RAEL: In other words if they ask you for your papers and you do have your papers apparently if they do stop you at random and start searching you they have violated some of your constitutional rights. It is my understanding that you would be able to go to court and sue them for violating your